Monitor for Electron Images on SX100

[Ravi]

Could Cameca users please let me know what monitor/screen they are using for the electron/BSE images on their Sx100. I have tried a couple of models from different manufacturers and various screen resolutions but not yet completely satisfied. Either there are fine lines or the images look a bit fuzzy or stretched or short vs. the Sony CRT monitor.
Ravi

[Probeman]

Could Cameca users please let me know what monitor/screen they are using for the electron/BSE images on their Sx100. I have tried a couple of models from different manufacturers and various screen resolutions but not yet completely satisfied. Either there are fine lines or the images look a bit fuzzy or stretched or short vs. the Sony CRT monitor.
Ravi

The electron image monitor on my Sx100 is an NEC MultiSync, model LCD 1980SX (I guess Cameca supplied it because of the "SX"!).  I don't know if it is still available, but here are the specs for it:

http://www.cnet.com/products/nec-multisync-lcd-1980sx-black/specs/

Maybe you can find something new that matches these specs.  I think the "multisync" aspect is the most important item?

[Philipp Poeml]

Because I need a new screen as well, currently we are using a EIZO FlexScan S1921, delivered with the SX100R. Excellent viewing angles.
It seems Eizo is still selling a FlexScan S1934, so that could replace the older S1921.

LCD Panel 19-inch (48 cm) TFT color LCD with anti-glare hard coating
Viewing angle: Vertical 178°, Horizontal 178° (CR: 10 or more)
Dot Pitch 0.294 mm
Horizontal Scan Frequency Analog: 24.8 - 80 kHz (Automatic)
Digital: 31 - 64 kHz
Vertical Scan Frequency Analog: 50 - 75 Hz (Automatic)
Digital: 59 - 61 Hz
(VGA TEXT: 69 - 71 Hz)
Resolution 1280 dots × 1024 lines
Max. Dot Clock Analog: 135 MHz
Digital: 108 MHz
Max. Display Colors 16.77 million colors
Display Area (H × V) 376.3 mm (14.81 inch) × 301.0 mm (11.85 inch)
Power Supply 100 - 120 VAC ±10% 50/60 Hz, 0.7 A
200 - 240 VAC ±10% 50 Hz, 0.4 A
Power Consumption * 1 Maximum (usually): 37W (speaker not working) / 40W (speaker working)
* 2 Maximum (usually): 37W
Power saving mode: 1 W or less (for single signal input with line input connector
connected)
Input Signal Connectors DVI-D connector, D-sub mini 15-pin connector
Analog Input Signal (Sync) H/V Separate, TTL, positive/negative
Analog Input Signal (Video) Analog, positive (0.7 Vp-p/75 Ω)

The link to John's NEC does not work anymore, here are its specs:
NEC MultiSync LCD1980SX
Panel Technology PVA TFT
Screen Size [inch/cm] 19/48.2
Pixel Pitch [mm] 0.294
Viewing Angle 170° horizontal / 170° vertical (typ. at contrast ratio 10:1)
Contrast Ratio (typ.) 600:1
Brightness (typ.) [cd/m 2] 250
Response Time (typ.) [msec] 25 (13 white / black; 12 black / white)
Colours [million] 16.77
Horizontal Frequency [kHz] 31 to 82
Vertical Frequency [Hz] 50 to 85
Optimum Resolution 1280 x 1024 at 60 Hz
Other Resolutions 1280 x 960; 1152 x 870; 1152 x 864; 1024 x 768;
832 x 624; 800 x 600; 720 x 400; 640 x 480
Connectors Digital: 1 x DVI-I, 1 x DVI-D; Analog: 1 x mini D-sub 15 pin

[Philipp Poeml]

Interesting. If you plug a standard Dell or whatever screen with the same resolution you get this green image that Ben also observed for his frame grabber thing.

So the probe seems to have a native resolution of 1024x768. I guess the reason for a 1280x1024 screen that this is the only available ones with scientific quality and 19".

Is there no such thing as a 19" or so monitor with 1024x768? Or double would also work nicely, 2048x1536?
Unfortunately everything is 16:9 or 16:10 these days.

[sem-geologist]

green screen is as VGA Sync can come in separate wire (common solution) or juxtaposed/added on Green channel (the Green analog signal is a bit higher biased than R and B), and only some monitors and expensive frame-grabbers can recognize that, as that is more advanced. Cameca used RGB - XGA conversion chip adds sync on green channel.  I also have problem with cheep Chinese USB frame grabber (unfortunately more expensive full-featured is no more available, and after request I got answer that it is old ancient technology and they don't do any more) giving green like figure. My solution is to use some filter in VLC (I use VLC to show the live video) to scale Green channel down and give proper image, which also works with colorful LUT's (kind of).

[sem-geologist]

as for resolution it is fixed (pixel clock too). There is no EDID (kind of intelligent handshake between monitor and video source). The circuit for producing RGB image is very simplistic on Cameca electronic side. it generates and emits RGB signal of fixed resolution and fixed pixel timing. If monitor is unable to work with given pixel clock - then You will see vertical stripes. Old SX100 electronics will give those if old video electronics as pixel clock is too slow, new electronics works with higher pixel clock and should work with most of modern monitors, albeit I am not sure about most recent monitors as everything goes faster and faster...

Max. Dot Clock Analog: 135 MHz

What should interest You in looking for monitor is not Max, but min which can go out of range (SX100 old type video card outputs 80MHz I think)

Wide monitors (at least some of them) allow to set 4:3 mode (making monitor sides blacked out).

[neko]

I bought a $50 VGA to USB3 grabber off of Amazon that works-ish. It does pull in a 1280x720 signal but I programmed a software solution for it using TouchDesigner until I can find a better solution.

It's not the best, and I'm running it through a (not very good) splitter (it's built into a document scanner camera. it was cheap and available) so it gets offset sometimes due to [] BUT I can see the BSE image from anywhere in the world so Job Get Done.

One of the bigger problems is that the probe outputs a PAL (european and asian) signal instead of NTSC (north american). So you need a monitor that is both 4:3 resolution and capable of PAL/50hz signaling or your display will be bad to completely non-functional. Plus the other stuff about resolution matching.

I plan on finding a better VGA - USB solution in the future, this was a "Does it work before we spend $500" test.

[sem-geologist]

NTSC/PAL is TV/video tape thing/cable transmition format; Cameca outputs XGA (double the size of VGA (640x480), eXtended Graphics Array) - the computer standard (PC) with pixel dimentions of 1024x768 - that was standard for computers quite long time. Now everything is wide screen, with tiny little belt left for work under the ribbons and toolboxes at top and status bars at bottom.... I miss those old days with normal screen ratios.

The main problem with finding working monitor for SX100/Five is that PC graphic cards are more sophisticated and can adapt in some degree to the monitor, and thus majority of modern monitors in the market use that. There is no EDID digital line in video output of SX100/Five, which would declare to monitor what kind of resolution and clock is going to be sent through the cable to the monitor (which normally is the case when connecting monitor to PC graphic card, or changing video resolution on PC (i.e. to clone the view to other monitor or other video presenting device). That problem also is present on cheap USB grabbers. The SX100/Five graphic card sends the RGB signal at fixed speed, and if monitor clock cant be slowed down to sync with that pixel clock, then vertical stripes will appear.

[wonachlas]

The EIZO FlexScan S1921 on our SX-Five died last week (10 years and 1 month after the mfg date). I was able to find a used replacement S1921 on ebay, but while waiting for that to arrive I am using a ViewSonic VA708A 17" monitor. The electron image aspect ratio is preserved as normal and the viewing quality is equivalent to the EIZO. The 2" difference is barely noticeable (to me) when doing routine imaging.