Author Topic: Diffusion pump on SX100  (Read 1683 times)

sem-geologist

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Re: Diffusion pump on SX100
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2023, 01:21:26 AM »
But how do I know what DC voltages SX vacuum logical board expects for corresponding vacuum? I did reverse engineering scanning of it. (No one would expect anything less from me I guess  ::)). I fed coaxial cable of secondary gauage with different voltages while watching vacuum values shown in GUI. The setup was simple 20k potentiometer, two 9V batteries (two connected in series, so I could cover with scanning voltages up to 10V), SMB coaxial connector, small breadboard to make some T junctions to attach the voltmeter for V measurement. By changing potentiometer I scanned from 0 to 10V and wrote down corresponding vacuum values. It seems that up to 9V the relation between log(P) and U is pretty linear. Actually in normal circumstances the gauge is engaged with better vacuum so below 9V. Thus that low vacuum range (9V-10V) can be ignored, and then looking for offset and scaling values I was looking that it would cover 0.5-9V range of expected values. The attached spreadsheet contains these recalculations with estimated gain and offset values for DC. tables has two offset values, mathematical and InAmp offset (InAmp - instrumentation amplifier). Mathematically we see no difference between these two equations:

Usx = Ugauge*G + O

or

Usx = (Ugauge+O/G)*G

where Usx is expected voltage, Ugauge is voltage output of gauge, G is gain and O is offset.

However, first equation is not possible to implement in OPAMPS which would saturate at gain, where second is easier to implement. So the offset which will be need to be set by potentiometer is InAmp ref (pin) offset or O/G. Gain is then applied at next stage (the G). Attached spreadsheet shows and presents gains and offests for different kind of gauges.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2023, 09:46:20 AM by sem-geologist »

sem-geologist

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Re: Diffusion pump on SX100
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2023, 06:29:16 AM »
And there comes a teaser picts (rendering) of ready PCB design:



Hopefully in one week I will have a real prototype. Also I am still waiting for Edwards AIM200 gauge... already for 2 months... Good It is universal and Could buy Curt Lesker active gauge or will test it with WRG gauge.


Probeman

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Re: Diffusion pump on SX100
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2023, 08:03:05 AM »

We have the turbo on our SX100, but to quote the person I learnt from: "Never trust the gauge!".


Yes, I started to understand such narrative. But is the situation still the same as decades ago and can't we have anything better?

At first, Alcatel Penning gauge (gauge installed on early models of SX100) is indeed hard to trust - there is whole pipeline of things where stuff can go wrong... I dig up through piles of old emails (my late predecessor had printed all communications and emails, which I could look through and learn the whole history of repairs of our SX100), and learned that indeed the problems with vacuum measurements were re-emerging again and again and again... Not only gauge but also cable was changed many times. Investigation of complete construction had revealed major weaknesses of this type of gauge.

1) High Voltage is sent through coaxial cable. That is about 4kV which is constant. If dielectric material weakens somewhere in the cable it start to leak  and generates some current at HV source side. The whole vacuum measuring is based on precise current measurement through shunting resistor at returning path of HV generator, so such additional cable leakage current will sum up with current generated at gauge and worsen the displayed value of vacuum. But, in case of a huge leak in cable there will be no possibility to start penning gauge at all, as there will be significant voltage drop at gauge (leakage in cable will form something like voltage divider). Even if it will be clean gauge - bad cable will hinder its functioning. As for alcatel gauge cables - these are no more produced - all available at second hand shops are of questionable quality! Making new cable (DIY) from scratch is also hindered by requirement of HV reliable cable terminations (tools, expertise), and proper cable availability on the market (There are cables more think, and expensive).

2) Penning gauge, while being in simple construction, can give easily wrong idea about vacuum when not striking. Its lack of current (no strike event) could be compensated with small leak and final reading would look as good properly working gauge value. Experienced user knows that reading is wrong - but only if user tracks vacuum readings closely after the moment the vacuum valve is opened, and tracks the vacuum value response to that event. If vacuum suddenly just goes to 5E-5Pa from very rough vacuum - that is clearly unrealistic. However, if user leaves pumping unattended, and gets back to instrument after 10 min (and cable is leaky a bit), he can see the i.e. 4E-4Pa, even if gauge had not strike. Also Penning gauge needs constant high voltage, that have tendency to deteriorate the weakened isolation material in the cable and progress the problem(s).

Thus I came up with initiative, to make a replacement card which would interface modern gauges to SX100 (giving-up alcatel penning). That would be not jumping one tier in technology (like SXFive's used Agilent IMG) but two tiers. The next technological tier, IMG (inversed magnetron gauge), is more advantageous compared to Penning, but still requires the high voltage cabling and its correct termination and custom made current sensing circuits are difficult to do properly. Interfacing stock controlers of gauges is also hard as it would require changing firmware and finding some serial port on Cameca SX100 vacuum logical board. (That is rather completely out of equation).
Inside SX100 vacuum supply box, there is small board interfacing Alcatel gauge. It produces HV supply, measures the return current and sends the calculated vacuum as log10(P) as DC signal from 0 to 10V (10V roughting, 0V -ultimate vac) through coaxial cable to Vacuum logical board.

Thus naturally my attention got stolen by active gauges, which is higher tier than normal IMG. Active gauges work with low voltage cables, and produce all required HV for integrated IMG inside the gauges integrated electronics and send out only low voltage 0-10V signals (see the pattern?). Such gauges are also flexible as they can be powered from 14.5 to 40V, and such supply is already present in the Vacuum supply box. Also it looks that few different vendors have very similar connection based on 8C8P (or FCC68, or well known RJ45 ethernet cable/sockets), with same basic pin configuration: at least I found out few such gauges from Edwards, Curt J. Lesker and Inficon with such connections.

But what are advantages?
1) No HV cable. Basically simple Ethernet cable will do the job, as only 2W +15V is required to power such gauge, and signal is 0 to +10V. Replacement cable can be easily made or bought. (but it should not age at all, differently to high voltage cables).
2) These active gauges have builtin microcontrollers and LED(s) which show(s) status of gauge (i.e. if strike was successful) - the meaning of vacuum reading is clear. Situation then strike failed, and we have low current and very low vacuum reading is easily to catch. Also Active Gauges reduce high voltage to minimum after strike - this means less contamination of gauge - longer exploitation time between need of cleaning.
3) Edwards gauges (i.e. AIM200) has special multi-strike geometries which guaranties striking even in dirty environments.

How it will work?
My idea is to translate the voltage from such modern gauge to corresponding expected DC voltage by logical vacuum board of SX100. Basically my design is few OPAMPS for DC offset, scale and clip (values out of expected range). Two potentiometers will allow to easily recalibrate board to different kind of gauges from different vendor. It would be possible even to use WRG from Edwards (albeit pirani range would not be seen). The idea is to have seamless replacement (no firmware or software changes).

So how many people would be interested in such design?

I have schematics alreadynearly finished (see the attachement), and now I am at stage of PCB design.
I won't produce and sell the boards, the EU laws and handicaps are too enormous for me (Basically RoHS3 forbids me to make and sell reliable electronics). But I could share the design, gerber files, bill of materials and notes for proper assemblage at site overcoming RoHS hindrances. PCB when having these is possible to order in most of the world. Buying parts and assembling them on PCB should be not too difficult, board is designed to be hand solder-able (no surface mounted parts, everything "though hole" parts). Albeit design could be updated with surface mounted parts if someone would decide to produce and sell larger batch of such boards.

Our instrument engineer made this comment regarding the above comment from SG:

Quote
       The penning gauge on the SX100 is pretty robust. It's easy to clean.

We don't have much trouble except that it does cause GV3 errors (vacuum system shuts down) whenever it decides to arc. Ash buildup makes it  more prone to arcing, but even when no ash is present, small arcs can  trigger a GV3 error if the specimen chamber pressure is higher than usual (pinhole in spectro window), which offsets the DC signal the arc voltage spike is riding on, tripping the window comparator. Such narrow spikes are supposed to be filtered out by a capacitor, but  even adding more parallel capacitance does not seem to make the filter effective in stopping such spikes. That fact makes me think the arc duration is rather long, negating the effectiveness of the filter.

Putting a datalogger on this signal would answer this question. What I've done to stop these nuisance arcs from causing GV3 errors for the time being is to defeat the window comparator so that the CPU logic does not see these arc spikes. This is not ideal, but we rest easy knowing that the  analog pressure reading remains active, and the system can do a shut down if that reading goes high.

     The author of the post does have a point saying we need to have a replacement for the stock gauge since it is now obsolete and out of production.

Steve

I also note a post from Jeff Streger from Rave Scientific on LinkedIn noting this new product from Edwards. The APG200 Piriani gauge:

https://www.edwardsvacuum.com/content/dam/brands/edwards-vacuum/edwards-website-assets/scientific-vacuum/documents/datasheets/3601-0681-01-Active-Pirani-Gauge-APG200-Product-Datasheet.pdf
« Last Edit: September 25, 2023, 08:06:01 AM by Probeman »
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sem-geologist

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Re: Diffusion pump on SX100
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2023, 10:38:28 AM »
Pirani is of not much use in our case, as 1) pirani gauges are useful at atmospheric - low vacuum ranges 2) there is low vaccum gauges already, tightly integrated with Cameca SX100 vacuum logic. It is not possible to use low vacuum range of pirani without modifying logical interface of SX100 vacuum; 3) separate cold cathode and pirani (or other low vac type) are more robust. I mentioned WRG (pirani coupled with cold cathode inside single package https://www.idealvac.com/Edwards-WRG-Wide-Range-Gauge/pl/7-33-291), as sometimes those are off-shelf available at vacuum shops (applied more widely), where cold cathode type gauges needs to be waited for production as it is produced in small batches, unfortunately. What I would like to get ultimately is Edwards AIM200:
https://www.edwardsvacuum.com/content/dam/brands/edwards-vacuum/edwards-website-assets/scientific-vacuum/documents/datasheets/3601-0753-01-AIM200-Active-Inverted-Magnetron-Gauge-Product-Datasheet-LR.pdf
If they fail to deliver that till I get the functioning interface board, I am going then with this:
https://www.lesker.com/newweb/gauges/kjlc-cold-cathode.cfm
Eventually shop could lend me temporary the WRG (but I need documentation to be sure it is safe to connect), so I would not be so upset and would wait for AIM200 a bit more. WRG is only a temporary option, and not due to pirani, but due to widely available off-shelf cold cathode gauge.

As for arcing, new generation of gauges prevents this by reducing the high voltage after started - that significantly reduces risk of arching. Albeit we are unlucky with that (had not observed this), In our case we rather have lowered voltage at gauge as our cable is partly leaking.

And mine project aims to be as much as robust and to give possibility to make reliable replacement.
1. All parts are THT, for these reasons:
  a) the solder joint inspection can be done with bare eye, and is quite straight-forward
  b) easiest way to mitigate RoHS enforced tin whisker and solder embrittlement problems (design uses sockets for DIP8 and DIP14 components, not because replacability, but because then IC components can be NiAuPd plated. In case directly soldering such parts it risks in forming cracking when using PbSn solder (have risk of embrittlement and cracking after some time like few years); Where other passive components (i.e. with pure Sn coating) can be dipped into PbSn solder for whisker protection, doing that with Integrated circuit components (in case of pure Sn plated) is not wise as can be damaged by thermal shock. The Not-green components (with PbSn coating) aimed at space and military are restrictively expensive and are sold in packs, thus (over-)plating passive components and using "green" NiAuPd plated ICs is the optimal solution.
  c) Can be easily soldered by less experienced.
2. Aims to work with wide range of gauges (currently to my knowledge at least three vendors, and different models). Post-pandemic market fluctuations had shown how not-wise it is to rely on a single supplier of components.
3. Is not tied to single supplier of components, has alternative integrated circuit models and suppliers for circuit to work near identically.
4. No software or firmware changes - just drop-in replacement - The software or firmware will not notice it is different gauge than Alcatel.
5. You probably had noticed Open Hardware mark on schematics and board? yes, after testing the first prototype I will release it as Open Hardware (probably on github, or other repository) - that means anyone will be able to tailor and keep the design up-to-date with best market-available gauges (OH - is like open software, just for hardware). Anyone can modify and tailor for his needs, order the parts and assemble at-site.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2023, 01:36:42 AM by sem-geologist »

sem-geologist

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Re: Diffusion pump on SX100
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2023, 03:11:45 AM »
Gauge Upgrade Complete! The gauge replacement to AIM200 Edwards gauge shows that chamber vacuum is OK (The vac was off for two weeks, and after start up yesterday currently reached 2E-4Pa, but seems still dropping). Good that I patiently waited and had not did any stupid things with diffusion pump.

There, let me give you few teasers from this new system.
One from 5 PCB's manufactured in JLCPCB (china). (I have 4 spare laying around, as minimal board number to fill the PCB standard blank PCB board is 5). The daughter board is connected through "mouse bites" with main board, so that manufacturer of PCB would treat is as single, and it is easy deatach:


Old and new gauge side by side:


... and their connectors, please note that Active gauge works with low voltage supply and signals thus RJ45 does the job perfectly:


The original and upgrade boards side by side. Color red so it would be very clear it is not original part.


Upgrade board sitting in the Vacuum supply box. It is drop-in upgrade: